Join newsgroup first before download msg retrieved by XPAT

Helder · Post by **Helder** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:02 pm

Hi Alex,

My ISP now uses News-Service.com for newsgroups. Their servers (total 11 TB) are located in the Netherlands where I live, so I would like to use it.
I like also the NewsPro interface too, but I get most of the time an error when I try to download messages which headers I have retrieved with XPAT:

Error 430 Cant retrive article, try joining a newsgroup first

I have asked News-Service.com what this error means, and I got the following answer:

Due to the architecture of our server farm our frontend servers know nothing about message id's. All articles and their message-id's are located on different backend spool servers. If you get the above message, your newsreader tries to retrieve an article by it's message-id. A different approach is to join a newsgroup first, and then retrieve the article using the article number or message-id. If you get the above error message, you should try a different newsreader.

Well, I don't want another newsreader ! I like NewsPro.
I have read some items in this forum, and I found the answer to my problem:

Because of the capability of searching in many newsgroups newspro doesn't keep article numbers along with newsgroup names, only the message-id (otherwise it becomes messy to handle, since these are not just subscribed newsgroups) for a normally working server it is not a problem to retrieve an article by message-id (it is a basic command).

I use sometimes FTD to see what it is beeing posted, and then I retrieve the interesting headers for this post with an XPAT search on only one (1) newsgroup. But I cannot retrieve the message bodies because NewsPro don't join the newsgroup before retrieving the bodies.

I don't known if you have plans to resolve the problem, but I would like it to be resolved, because it is now almost impossible to use XPAT in NewsPro.

Thank you

alex · Post by **alex** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:27 pm

maybe to find another news service then

retrieval by message-id is very important access method which was out there from the beginning it is impossible to explain why they decided to remove it.

such feature as message-id direct cannot be implemented in principle if the method is not supported.

for xpat it would be necessary to keep more than minimal information to access the article - not only the message-id and servers but also article numbers and newsgroups.

currently newspro can handle such server malfunction (malfunction since the nntp protocol is violated) for usual newsgroups and folders - generally for any header that is not exclusively in a xpat group. it is well possible that i'll try to keep additional information for xpat method (not so trivial since it requires indexing non-subscribed newsgroups, the purpose is not to handle such servers but rather to show article newsgroups in properties without the necessity to download bodies) but it won't happen within the current database structure.

most news services don't have problem with the message-id retrieval method, only few custom implmentations do.

Helder · Post by **Helder** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 12:20 am

Alex, thank you for your answer.

Certainly I could pay for another news service, but this one is included in my 8 Mbit ADSL-abbonement and it is very complete I think.

Can you explain what you mean with:

the purpose is not to handle such servers but rather to show article newsgroups in properties without the necessity to download bodies

Also I think you need only one extra information field for XPAT headers-only: the newsgroup name where the header come from. If you have the newsgroup name and the message-id, you can simply join the newsgroup before retrieving the message body. News-Service.com accepts message-id's as long as you first tell in what newsgroup the message resides.

alex · Post by **alex** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 12:29 pm

if xpat dialog contains many newsgroups it is impractical; with only one newsgroup it is possible to add an option; with even a few newsgroups it is questionable since most server implementations don't need it so the reply will be always the same and it will be a waste of time for most users.

if you like i could prepare for you a custom version e.g. if the xpat group is called #alt.something, newspro will issue GROUP alt.something before issuing the article command, it is very fast to add. maybe a few days later, let me know by email, just currently i'm busy with finding something else for rent, we're considering changing location.

in general i would prefer not to concentrate on buggy server implementations, eventually i'll try to include all what is possible, your server problem is very nasty since it makes cross-server options impossible, although this particular fix not for wide public would be ok, maybe 15 min of work.

Helder · Post by **Helder** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 5:51 pm

Alex,
Thank you for your sugestion to send a GROUP command first if the XPAT search group begins with #alt.something. I would like it.
But what if you release a new version ? Then I couldn't use it...

In the meaningtime, I would like if you can send me a special version with your suggested special fix for me.

I have written this answer here because I don't known what e-mail address I can contact you. Is that <support@usenetopia.com> ?

Thank you again.

alex · Post by **alex** » Sat Jul 19, 2003 1:16 am

well, if you want something universally working in a short term, the compromise solution is to create a newsgroup with the name starting with ##<newsgroup name>, so newspro will know to treat such groups in the special way.

i'll put the solution in this thread in several days (although it is fast to add I'm still resolving unrelated problems which i hate but i'll be through soon), then you'll see whether it works, who knows, maybe the server doesn't understand retrieval by message-id at all.

Helder · Post by **Helder** » Sun Jul 20, 2003 10:34 pm

OK, thank you, Alex.
I'm sure the server accepts also message-id's as long as you first send a GROUP command. If I have searched some messages with XPAT from a group, and then I try to download them from the #search group then it doesn't work.
But if I have the same group subscribed as a normal group and I get some headers from it, and then go back to the #search group and retry to get the same messages I tried before then it works fine! I think because when you get some headers from a normal group NewsPro first sends a GROUP command to the server and because the socket connection remains open NewsPro uses the same connection when I go back to the #search group. Is this correct ?

alex · Post by **alex** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 5:57 pm

no, newspro uses the article number.

the version is here:

http://www.usenetopia.com/npr37plus.zip

if you want to search e.g. alt.movies you need to name the search group ##alt.movies

if it works (let me know) i would leave it, it may work then for other crippled services, at least as a fix.

Helder · Post by **Helder** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 9:27 pm

Alex, thank you, NewsPro version 3.7.0.1 resolves the problem with my news server.
It works fine!

muks · Post by **muks** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 3:59 pm

This issue is not with news-service.com backend/reader/storage/whatever servers. Its their own opensource http://www.nntpswitch/ nntp switch frontend that causes this. I think it doesnt store message-id index of backend readers on that server so message-id doesnt tell it what server to get forward commands to :) So far only nsp that uses this is news-service.com even when their diablo/inn backend systems handle message-id just fine.

alex · Post by **alex** » Fri Aug 08, 2003 10:41 am

usenetserver has the same issue, although maybe their problem is the msg-id index out of synch - although in an email they wrote they don't support xpat at all (but they do).